Kitchen and Bathroom

At last I can publish some photographs of the kitchen and bathroom looking almost finished. They need a good clean to remove all the dust but we are pretty much there. You cannot see any more of the bath in this picture as it is full of water having just been sealed.

I am very pleased with how the kitchen has turned out. The cupboards on the left hand side work really well but there is still plenty of room to openthe oven door and get access to cloakroom through the door at the end.

More Pictures

I published a picture of the stairs early in this blog, here they are completed. There is just a stair rail to put up on the right hand side and we are done (apart from the carpets). I am pleased we did this in the end even though there were some (me included) who were worried about the impact this type of cladding would have on the raisers.

Whilst the new bathroom has been installed it is not working yet. This picture of the outside of the house gives you a clue as to why.

Looking at the current state of the soil pipe you wouldn't want to be standing outside if somebody were to flush the loo!

Oh Look - A Bathroom

It's all beginning to take shape and the bathroom looks really good. Here are some pictures which begins to give you some idea of the size and layout. Now I can see all the furniture in the room I am delighted with how much space there is. It really does make the house look fantastic.

The holes in the wall are where the shower unit controls will go.

This Week

There is much happening this week and whilst we won't be finished by Friday, as the project clock suggests, we should be much closer to knowing how close to completing by the end of the month we will be.

Without trying to put the kibosh on things, by the end of the week we should have a bathroom installed (although not working), a boiler installed and commissioned, a kitchen delivered, tiling completed in the bathroom, all plastering finished throughout (except the kitchen), the under stairs cupboard finished, the garden clearance completed, the cracked brickwork repaired (subject to weather) and a start on the downstairs decorating.

I probably shouldn't have said all of that. They will probably all walk off site now.

Bathroom Order

I have finally ordered what I think will be everything not purchased so far for the new upstairs bathroom and the cloakroom. This order includes all the waste, wall hangers, panels, taps and so on. Everything. Everything that is until I am told what I have forgotten! Doubtless the plumber will take great delight in telling me.

The total amount spent on all of these bits and pieces is £683.66 which is considerably less than £3000 in the budget. This seems like good news but the budget also included estimates for the stud work, plastering and fitting etc which has now been moved to another line item. As I mentioned in an earlier post it is difficult to truly know how the budget is doing line by line but overall I think we are just about there.

Bathroom Window

The ultra thin render based wall has been replaced with a bright and shiny new window. I think it's look pretty good but it is even better from the inside.

More pictures to come and then it's time for kitchen design. I have the exact measurements now the stud work is in so design and ordering is next weeks priority.

Bathroom Shopping List

The new cloakroom suite arrived and gave us the chance to offer the units up to the wall and see it fitted OK and that there was enough space. I am pleased we did this as it showed us that whilst the units we purchased would fit upstairs we need a much smaller sink (and no pedestal) downstairs.

So here is the list of all of the other items I need to purchase to complete the bathroom and the cloakroom except for the small sink and associated taps as I need to make absolutely certain the unit I chose will fit in the space we have available. I have sent this lot of to our plumber for his thoughts before I place the order. I also need to know what waste units etc I need to buy and get the specification of the cloakroom sink in the same order so I don't have to pay another lot of delivery. When I have finished the order I think I will have spent about £650.00 on all the bathroom units. I could have spent a little less but I think it is worth spending money on taps and things that have a high visual impact.

This is a much better shower unit and I hope that those that have been rightly critical in my choice of unit so far will think this one is more appropriate.

Bathroom (s) Shopping List

Taps

Shower Unit

Shower Screen

Bath Panel

Bath

Toilet

Accessory Pack

Squeezing past the sink

One of the problems with trying to plan a bathroom or a kitchen is that you have to make decisions that cannot be easily revoked. Once the pipework is in etc the scope for change is limited.

It seems to me that this situation is worse with a bathroom as you are usually tying to squeeze three or four pieces of furniture of different shapes and sizes into a small a space as possible. With a kitchen you are trying to squeeze as much stuff as you can into the space you have. Kitchens have the other advantage of using equipment and furniture of a standard size; 600mm deep and so on.

As a result of all of this I think it is nigh on impossible to pick a bathroom suite and be certain that you have enough space between the wall and the sink to get to the toilet or the bath and the toilet to get to the sink and so on. Templates etc would work well but it is not like the real thing. That is why I ordered a sink and toilet today so we can see how it fits in the bathroom. If it works - great. If not we will use this kit in the downstairs cloakroom and buy something smaller for upstairs. It means paying more than one delivery charge (£40.00 each time) but I think it is worth it. It costs a lot more to send these things back if they don't fit and you don't want them anymore.

Bathroom Suites

I have been told that it is time to start thinking about the bathroom suites we want (and buy them I guess). The type of toilet is particularly important as it makes a difference to the way that the soil pipes are attached.

I have looked at various bathroom suites on-line and have been quite surprised and how much they cost (a lot) and how much they get discounted to (also a lot).

So, here are links to the proposed suites.

Upstairs Bathroom

Downstairs Cloakroom

Thermostatic Shower Mixer tap

This all comes to about £550.00 with the taps costing £255.00. I have sent details of these over to our plumber for his thoughts but I am going to make life size templates of the units and take them round over the weekend to see how it all fits and to find out if you can get past the sink to the toilet and so on. We have decided (on advice) to move the sink and the toilet around upstairs which should make this easier. Apparently the stud walls are up so I will take some pictures at the same time.

More Bathroom Thoughts

Following Tim’s comment he sent me a private email which informed me he had left some alternative plans under the mat outside his front door. This is clearly the one of the benefits of knowing who is reading your blog!

Anyway at 6:15 this morning I duly collected said plans from under the mat, scanned them in and reproduce them below.


This is an interesting idea and not one I had considered before. There are a couple of difficulties with it as I see it. One of them, as Tim acknowledges, is the waste route. The toilet close to the outside wall wouldn’t cause a problem but getting the pipe work from the toilet attached to the front bedroom would cause some difficulties. There is no obvious route through the other bathroom; in addition there needs to be a “drop” from the toilet to the waste otherwise the contents of the pipe may just sit there. Clearly this is best avoided!!!! I don’t usually like multiple exclamation marks but I think they are probably justified in this case.

A further consideration is that the plan involves building out slightly over the stairs (whilst maintaining headroom for the stairs below). I like this idea and it makes sense but it would add considerable expense to the project. It would also mean that the house does not have a bath unless I revert to having one downstairs. Does not having a bath matter if you have two showers?

Who is likely to rent this house? If it is two individuals on a house share I think Tim’s plan is a good one and there is a key benefit in having two en-suite rooms and no bath. If a family, I think a bath becomes more important. On balance I think that the house is more likely to be purchased / rented by a couple or young family so perhaps the cheaper option where the bath is maintained is the best.

It does go to show what can be achieved with some thought and a little time. When I first saw the house I was looking to put a simple cloakroom upstairs vented by a fan and soil pipe that had to run through the house.

Initial Specification

Whilst it is still my intention to project manage the work myself I am going to get a quote from a main contractor for comparative purposes.

In any event I am going to need a specification of work required so here is my first version of it. It is not particularly detailed in as much as it does not specifiy where light switches should go and what radiators to use but it is a start.

I am sure I will have missed out some major items but you've got to start somewhere.

Outside

1. Remove / repair / replace all damaged render from left flank wall as required.
2. Re-point right flank wall as required.
3. Bond “falling” bricks above the front door.
4. Clear front and back garden.
5. Paint all masonry and front door.

Inside

1. Remove current kitchen, bathroom, fitted wardrobes and cupboards, flooring (not floorboards), electrical fittings and heating / plumbing.
2. Remove all plaster from front and back rooms to ceiling
3. Remove plaster as required to all other rooms including back bedroom ceiling.
4. Repair / replace downstairs joists as required and ensure that they are not touching outside walls.
5. Repair current stair treads as required.
6. Install airbricks to provide adequate under floor ventilation.
7. Install chemical DPC to outside wall in two reception rooms.
8. Treat all wood for worm etc.
9. Install new window with lintel to new upstairs bathroom.
10. Install studwork for new upstairs bathroom and hall.
11. Install new soil pipe and waste to upstairs bathroom and connect to main drain.
12. Re-wire house including new fuse box.
13. Install new boiler and heating system.
14. Brick up windows no longer required.
15. Plaster all rooms as required.
16. Replace / repair skirting board as required.
17. Replace all windows as specified.
18. Install and fit new kitchen
19. Install and fit new upstairs bathroom
20. Sand downstairs floors if possible.
21. Re-glaze existing internal doors and re-hang.
22. Line walls if required.
23. Install insulation into the loft.
24. Paint and decorate all rooms
25. Tile kitchen and bathroom walls and floors as required.
26. Carpet stairs and bedrooms.
27. Fit laminate flooring if sanding downstairs floors is not possible.

If anyone can think of items I have doubtless forgotten please let me know.

Bathroom Version II

I have been back to the house and measured properly. I hadn’t realised quite how difficult it is to do this accurately. It is too easy to assume that walls are at right angles to each other etc and invariably they aren’t.

Anyway here is the slightly revised upstairs plan. Thank you to APD Observer for your thoughts on the placement of the sink. We had pretty much come to same conclusion but it is good to hear it from someone else. The sink and toilet could be swapped but I think I’ll leave that decision until we start the work. As we are not really building over the stairs (only using a cupboard that is already there) and as the waste will go straight out the side wall here should be no need to raise the floor level whatever option we take.

All the windows, doors and chimney breasts have been added to the drawing along with an indication of where wardrobes can go.

Planning Update

I have just found out I don’t need planning permission to put an obscured glass window in the side of the house provided that any opening is more than 1.7m from the ground. I do need to get building control approval for the work but this is more to check that it is done properly (putting in a lintel etc) . There is some talk that if the window is to be more than 1m sq that may require additional permission. To avoid an issue I will ensure it isn’t!

I hvae been told about a new goverment website for planning rules. Here is the link. The interactive house is pretty good.

All I need to do now is see if I can speak to the neighbours and see how they feel about a new window and a new soil pipe. There isn’t much they can do about it but I always think it is nice to ask people’s permission when you can.

Off to do some more measuring later on today.

A New Bathroom

I have now used Visio (what a pain that piece of software is) to map out the upstairs of the house with a before and after plan. It looks like my attempts to get a full bathroom might work. I say might because I don't have good enough measurements of the house so I think I will try and get back round there this weekend to measure more accurately.

If this works it will give me much more scope downstairs and I will measure that at the same time to plan the new kitchen.


Here is the upstairs layout from my basic drawings from my last visit. The scale is 1:50 and the beds which I have put on the plans for reference purposes are 5ft beds.

I didn't specifically measure the doors so I have guessed at 800mm which is about average (I think). The windows are marked in the right place by the size is a guess as I didn't measure them.

The little cut out in the top room is where the hot water tank is at the moment but as we are going to put in a combi-boiler there will be no need for it any more.

Basically as it stands you go up the stairs and then turn left or right through a door to the bedrooms.



Here is the upstairs with my attempt to get a full bathroom in. I think this works. We have the added benefit of being able to put small vanity unit in the second bedroom.

The bath is 17000x700 which I believe is standard and there will be room to put a shower above it.

I need to go back and measure the house more accurately but I think that this looks pretty good. The plan doesn't show it but the right hand wall has small recesses for the old chimney breasts and these can be covered by wardrobes down this wall.

This works particularly well in the room where the bathroom has been placed as the door into the bedroom has been moved to the middle of the wall.

No news on exhange yet so I'll keep planning.

Plans and Ideas

Whilst having a downstairs bathroom is the not worst thing in the world I think that most people prefer, given the choice, not to have to go downstairs to answer a call of nature in the middle of the night. It always seems too far to go especially if the facilities in question are the other side of the kitchen and you have had a couple of quite ones the night before.

I think that it is worth the extra expenditure to put a small shower room upstairs which we did include in the original budget. This makes the larger of the bedrooms smaller but as the shower itself can fit over the stairs it doesn’t take up any new space and then we are really just trying to find space for a toilet and a sink. These two items don’t take up much space. The only challenge is where to run the waste. The quotation we have already received assumes that a new 4 inch soil pipe will be run inside the house (obviously boxed in) to join up with the drain at the back of the house. There is an inspection hatch just outside the flank wall which I hope we may be able to join. Thames Water charge a fee for giving permission (just over £200.00) and whilst it is difficult to work out I think the current drain run is partially in our land so we should be ok. This will make a difference both to the price for installing an upstairs bathroom and the aesthetics.

I am now wondering whether it is worth stealing a bit more space and putting in a bath with a shower over it. If we were to do this there would be little point in having a second bathroom downstairs. We could then consider removing the current downstairs bathroom and making the kitchen much bigger. The question is which option provides more value? Do two bedroom houses gain more value by having an upstairs and downstairs bathroom or by having a bigger kitchen? One idea might be to remove the downstairs bathroom and build a downstairs cloakroom. This sounds attractive but I am not convinced how much people like the idea of a toilet leading directly off a kitchen (or even if you are allowed to do so) but I am sure there must be a way of doing this well. The wall connecting the kitchen to the bathroom is not load bearing so taking it down wouldn’t be hard.

I think this idea deserves further consideration and some more time spent with a ruler and pencil. I’ll post the internal diagrams and proposal on this blog when I have done them.